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Transcript of the Osama Interview
8/22/98
Transcript of Osama Bin Ladin interview The first-ever
television interview with Osama Bin Ladin was conducted by
Peter Arnett of CNN in eastern Afghanistan in late March
1997.
Questions were submitted in advance. Bin Ladin responded to
almost all of the questions. CNN was not allowed to ask
follow up questions. The interview lasted just over an hour.
ARNETT: Mr. Bin Ladin, could you give us your main criticism
of the Saudi royal Family that is ruling Saudi Arabia today?
MR. BIN LADIN: Regarding the criticisms of the ruling regime
in Saudi Arabia and the Arabian peninsula, the first one is
their subordination to the US. So, our main problem is the US
government while the Saudi regime is but a branch or an agent
of the US. By being loyal to the US regime, the Saudi regime
has committed an act against Islam. And this, based on the
ruling of Shari'a (Islamic jurisprudence), casts the regime
outside the religious community. Subsequently, the regime has
stopped ruling people according to what God revealed, praise
and glory be to Him, not to mention many other contradictory
acts. When this main foundation was violated, other corrupt
acts followed in every aspect of the country, the economic,
the social, government services and so on. REPORTER: Mr. Bin
Ladin, if the Islamic movement takes over Arabia, what kind
of society will be created and will Saudi Arabia, for
example, return to the laws of the Qur'an at the time of the
Prophet?
BIN LADIN: We are confident, with the permission of God,
Praise and Glory be to Him, that Muslims will be victorious
in the Arabian peninsula and that God's religion, praise and
glory be to Him, will prevail in this peninsula. It is a
great pride and a big hope that the revelation unto Muhammad,
Peace be upon him, will be resorted to for ruling. When we
used to follow Muhammad's revelation, Peace be upon him, we
were in great happiness and in great dignity, to God belong
credit and praise.
REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, if the Islamic movement takes over
Saudi Arabia, what would your attitude to the West be and
will the price of oil be higher? BIN LADIN: We are a nation
and have a long history, with the grace of God, Praise and
Glory be to Him. We are now in the 15th century of this great
religion, the complete and comprehensive methodology, has
clarified the dealing between an individual and another, the
duties of the believer towards God, Praise and Glory be to
Him, and the relationship between the Muslim country and
other countries in time of peace and in time of war. If we
look back at our history, we will find there were many types
of dealings between the Muslim nation and the other nations
in time of peace and in time of war, including treaties and
matters to do with commerce. So it is not a new thing that we
need to come up with. Rather, it already, by the grace of
God, exists. As for oil, it is a commodity that will be
subject to the price of the market according to supply and
demand. We believe that the current prices are not realistic
due to the Saudi regime playing the role of a US agent and
the pressures exercised by the US on the Saudi regime to
increase production and flooding the market that caused a
sharp decrease in oil prices.
REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, you've declared a jihad against the
United States. Can you tell us why? And is the jihad directed
against the US government or the United States' troops in
Arabia? What about US civilians in Arabia or the people of
the United States?
BIN LADIN: We declared jihad against the US government,
because the US government is unjust, criminal and tyrannical.
It has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and
criminal whether directly or through its support of the
Israeli occupation of the Prophet's Night Travel Land
(Palestine). And we believe the US is directly responsible
for those who were killed in Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq. The
mention of the US reminds us before everything else of those
innocent children who were dismembered, their heads and arms
cut off in the recent explosion that took place in Qana (in
Lebanon). This US government abandoned even humanitarian
feelings by these hideous crimes. It transgressed all bounds
and behaved in a way not witnessed before by any power or any
imperialist power in the world. They should have been
considerate that the qibla (Mecca) of the Muslims upheaves
the emotion of the entire Muslim World. Due to its
subordination to the Jews the arrogance and haughtiness of
the US regime has reached, to the extent that they occupied
the qibla of the Muslims (Arabia) who are more than a billion
in the world today. For this and other acts of aggression and
injustice, we have declared jihad against the US, because in
our religion it is our duty to make jihad so that God's word
is the one exalted to the heights and so that we drive the
Americans away from all Muslim countries. As for what you
asked whether jihad is directed against US soldiers, the
civilians in the land of the Two Holy Places (Saudi Arabia,
Mecca and Medina) or against the civilians in America, we
have focused our declaration on striking at the soldiers in
the country of The Two Holy Places. The country of the Two
Holy Places has in our religion a peculiarity of its own over
the other Muslim countries. In our religion, it is not
permissible for any non-Muslim to stay in our country.
Therefore, even though American civilians are not targeted in
our plan, they must leave. We do not guarantee their safety,
because we are in a society of more than a billion Muslims. A
reaction might take place as a result of US government's
hitting Muslim civilians and executing more than 600 thousand
Muslim children in Iraq by preventing food and medicine from
reaching them. So, the US is responsible for any reaction,
because it extended its war against troops to civilians. This
is what we say. As for what you asked regarding the American
people, they are not exonerated from responsibility, because
they chose this government and voted for it despite their
knowledge of its crimes in Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq and in
other places and its support of its agent regimes who filled
our prisons with our best children and scholars. We ask that
may God release them.
REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, will the end of the United States'
presence in Saudi Arabia, their withdrawal, will that end
your call for jihad against the United States and against the
US ?
BIN LADIN: The cause of the reaction must be sought and the
act that has triggered this reaction must be eliminated. The
reaction came as a result of the US aggressive policy towards
the entire Muslim world and not just towards the Arabian
peninsula. So if the cause that has called for this act comes
to an end, this act, in turn, will come to an end. So, the
driving-away jihad against the US does not stop with its
withdrawal from the Arabian peninsula, but rather it must
desist from aggressive intervention against Muslims in the
whole world.
REPORTER:Mr. Bin Ladin, tell us about your experience during
the Afghan war and what did you do during that jihad?
BIN LADIN: Praise be to God, the Cherisher and Sustainer of
the worlds, that He made it possible for us to aid the
Mujahidin in Afghanistan without any declaration for jihad.
It was rather the news that was broadcast by radio stations
that the Soviet Union invaded a Muslim country. This was a
sufficient motivation for me to start to aid our brothers in
Afghanistan. I have benefited so greatly from the jihad in
Afghanistan that it would have been impossible for me to gain
such a benefit from any other chance and this cannot be
measured by tens of years but rather more than that, Praise
and Gratitude be to God. In spite of the Soviet power, we
used to move with confidence and God conferred favors on us
so that we transported heavy equipment from the country of
the Two Holy Places (Arabia) estimated at hundreds of tons
altogether that included bulldozers, loaders, dump trucks and
equipment for digging trenches. When we saw the brutality of
the Russians bombing Mujahidins' positions, by the grace of
God, we dug a good number of huge tunnels and built in them
some storage places and in some others we built a hospital.
We also dug some roads, by the grace of God, Praise and glory
be to Him, one of which you came by to us tonight. So our
experience in this jihad was great, by the grace of God,
praise and glory be to Him, and the most of what we benefited
from was that the myth of the super power was destroyed not
only in my mind but also in the minds of all Muslims. Slumber
and fatigue vanished and so was the terror which the US would
use in its media by attributing itself super power status or
which the Soviet Union used by attributing itself as a super
power. Today, the entire Muslim world, by the grace of God,
has imbibed the faithful spirit of strength and started to
interact in a good manner in order to bring an end to
occupation and the Western and American influence on our
countries.
REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, what was the significance of the
Afgan war for the Islamic movement? Veterans of that war are
fighting for Islamic movements and conflicts from the former
Soviet republics such as Chechnya to Bosnia to Algeria. Can
you explain that phenomemon to us?
BIN LADIN: As I mentioned in my answer to the previous
question, the effect of jihad has been great not only at the
level of the Islamic movement but rather at the level of the
Muslim nation in the whole world. The spirit of power,
dignity and confidence has grown in our sons and brothers for
this religion and the power of God, Praise and Glory be to
Him. And it has become apparent even to the Islamic movement
that there is no choice but return to the original spring, to
this religion, to God's Book, Praise and Glory be to Him, and
to the sunna of His Prophet, Peace be upon him, as understood
by our predecessors, may God be pleased with them. Of this,
the acme of this religion is jihad. The nation has had a
strong conviction that there is no way to obtain faithful
strength but by returning to this jihad. The influence of the
Afghan jihad on the Islamic world was so great and it
necessitates that people should rise above many of their
differences and unite their efforts against their enemy.
Today, the nation is interacting well by uniting its efforts
through jihad against the US which has in collaboration with
the Israeli government led the ferocious campaign against the
Islamic World in occupying the holy sites of the Muslims. As
for the young men who participated in jihad here, their
number, by the grace of God, was quite big, Praise and
Gratitude be to Him, and they spread in every place in which
non-believers' injustice is perpetuated against Muslims.
Their going to Bosnia, Chechnya, Tajikistan and other
countries is but a fulfillment of a duty, because we believe
that these states are part of the Islamic World. Therefore,
any act of aggression against any of this land of a span of
hand measure makes it a duty for Muslims to send a sufficient
number of their sons to fight off that aggression.
REPORTER: Can you tell us now about your expulsion from Saudi
Arabia and your time you spent in Sudan and your arrival here
in Afganistan?
BIN LADIN: I was, by the grace of God, Praise and Glory be to
Him, in the great spot that is dear to God, Praise and Glory
be to Him, al-hijaz, especially Venerable Mecca, where is
God's Ancient House. However, the Saudi regime imposed on the
people a life that does not appeal to the free believer. They
wanted the people to eat and drink and celebrate the praise
of God, but if the people wanted to encourage what is right
and forbid what is wrong, they can't. Rather, the regime
dismisses them from their jobs and in the event they
continued to do so, they are detained in prisons. I have
rejected to live this submissive life, by God's favor, Praise
and Gratitude be to Him, that is not befitting of man let
alone a believer. So, I waited for the chance until, God,
Praise and Glory be to Him, has made it possible for me to
leave the country of the Two Holy Places. I hope God, Praise
and Glory be to Him, would confer upon me His favor to return
one day when God's law rules in that country. I went to the
Sudan and stayed there for aboutfive years during which I
visited Afghanistan and Pakistan to work against the
Communist government in Kabul. When the Saudi government
transgressed in oppressing all voices of the scholars and the
voices of those who call for Islam, I found myself forced,
especially after the government prevented Sheik Salman
al-Awdah and Sheik Safar al-Hawali and some other scholars,
to carry out a small part of my duty of enjoining what is
right and forbidding what is wrong. So, I collaborated with
some brothers and established a committee for offering advice
and we started to publish some declarations. (The Advice and
Reformation Committee). However, the Saudi regime did not
like this and started to exercise pressure on the Sudanese
regime. The US government, the Egyptian government and the
Yemeni government also helped in doing so. They requested me
explicitly from the Sudanese regime and the pressure
continued. Saudi Arabia dropped all of its conditions put to
the Sudanese regime in return that I be driven out of the
Sudan. The US government had already taken the same stance
and pulled out its diplomatic mission from Khartoum and put
forth their condition to return only after I have left.
Unfortunately, the Sudanese government was in some difficult
circumstances and there was a tendency inside the government
that was inclined to reconciliation or surrender. Then, when
they insisted initially that I should keep my mouth shut, I
decided to look for a land in which I can breathe a pure,
free air to perform my duty in enjoining what is right and
forbidding what is wrong. I ask God, Praise and Glory be to
Him, for increase in prosperity for this great land, the Land
of Khurasan (Afghanistan) in order to carry on this duty. So,
we implore God, Praise and Glory be to Him, that He accept
(our deeds) from us and the Muslims.
REPORTER: Now, the United States government says that you are
still funding military training camps here in Afganistan for
militant, Islamic fighters and that you are a sponser of
international terrorism; but others describe you as the new
hero of the Arab-Islamic world. Are these accusations true?
How do you describe yourself?
BIN LADIN: After the collapse of the Soviet Union in which
the US has no mentionable role, but rather the credit goes to
God, Praise and Glory be to Him, and the Mujahidin in
Afghanistan, this collapse made the US more haughty and
arrogant and it has started to look at itself as a Master of
this world and established what it calls the new world order.
It wanted to delude people that it can do whatever it wants,
but it can't do this. It leveled against me and others as
many accusations as it desired and wished. It is these
(accusations) that you mentioned. The US today as a result of
the arrogant atmosphere has set a double standard, calling
whoever goes against its injustice a terrorist. It wants to
occupy our countries, steal our resources, impose on us
agents to rule us based not on what God has revealed and
wants us to agree on all these. If we refuse to do so, it
will say you are terrorists. With a simple look at the US
behaviors, we find that it judges the behavior of the poor
Palestinian children whose country was occupied: if they
throw stones against the Israeli occupation, it says they are
terrorists whereas when the Israeli pilots bombed the United
Nations building in Qana, Lebanon while was full of children
and women, the US stopped any plan to condemn Israel. At the
time that they condemn any Muslim who calls for his right,
they receive the highest top official of the Irish Republican
Army (Gerry Adams) at the White House as a political leader ,
while woe, all woe is the Muslims if they cry out for their
rights. Wherever we look, we find the US as the leader of
terrorism and crime in the world. The US does not consider it
a terrorist act to throw atomic bombs at nations thousands of
miles away, when it would not be possible for those bombs to
hit military troops only. These bombs were rather thrown at
entire nations, including women, children and elderly people
and up to this day the traces of those bombs remain in Japan.
The US does not consider it terrorism when hundreds of
thousands of our sons and brothers in Iraq died for lack of
food or medicine. So, there is no base for what the US says
and this saying does not affect us, because we, by the grace
of God, are dependent on Him, Praise and Glory be to Him,
getting help from Him against the US. As for the last part of
your question, we are fulfilling a duty which God, Praise and
Glory be to Him, decreed for us. We look upon those heroes,
those men who undertook to kill the American occupiers in
Riyadh and Khobar (Dhahran). We describe those as heroes and
describe them as men. They have pulled down the disgrace and
submissiveness off the forehead of their nation. We ask
Allah, Praise and Glory be to Him, to accept them as martyrs.
REPORTER: Let's go to the bombings of United States troops in
Riyadh and Dhahran. Why did they happen and were you and your
supporters involved in these attacks?
BIN LADIN: We ask about the main reason that called for this
explosion. This explosion was a reaction to a US provocation
of the Muslim peoples, in which the US transgressed in its
aggression until it reached the qibla of the Muslims in the
whole world. So, the purpose of of the two explosions is to
get the American occupation out (of Arabia). So if the U.S.
does not want to kill its sons who are in the army, then it
has to get out.
Q: On the same issue of the American troops in Saudi Arabia,
do you think will be more bombing attacks on them? or attacks
on U.S. civilians in Arabia? or assassination attempts for
example, on the Saudi royal families?
BIN LADIN: As for the previous question, the explosion of
Riyadh and the one in Al-Khobar (Dhahran). It is no secret
that during the two explosions, I was not in Saudi Arabia,
but I have great respect for the people who did this action.
I say, as I said before, they are heroes. We look upon them
as men who wanted to raise the flag of "There is no God but
Allah", and to put an end the non believers and the state of
injustice that the U.S. brought. I also say that what they
did is a great job and a big honor that I missed
participating in.
Q) Do you think there will be more bombing attacks on
American troops in Saudi Arabia? or attacks on American
civilians in Saudi Arabia? or will there be assassination
attempts on the Saudi Arabian ruling family?
BIN LADIN: It is known that every action has its reaction. If
the American presence continues, and that is an action, then
it is natural for reactions to continue against this
presence. In other words, explosions and killings of the
American soldiers would continue. These are the troops who
left their country and their families and came here with all
arrogance to steal our oil and disgrace us, and attack our
religion. As for what was mentioned about the ruling (Saudi)
family those in charge, do bear the full responsibility of
everything that may happen. They are the shadow of the
American presence. The people and the young men are
concentrating their efforts on the sponsor and not on the
sponsored. The concentration at this point of Jihad is
against the American occupiers.
Q) What are your views about Sheik Omar Abdul Rahman and have
you ever met him? Do you know him?
BIN LADIN: Sheik Omar Abdul Rahman is a Muslim scholar
well-known all over the Muslim world. He represents the kind
of injustice that is adopted by the U.S. A baseless case was
fabricated against him even though he is a blind old man. We
ask Allah, The Almighty, to relieve him. The U.S. sentenced
him to hundreds of years just to please its caprice and the
whims of the Egyptian regime. He is now very badly treated
and in no way fit for an old man like him or any Muslim
scholar.
Q) The U.S. State Department quoting a Pakistani official
says that Ramzi Yousef, a convicted bomber in the World Trade
Center in New York City stayed in the house you funded in
Peshawar, Pakistan for those receiving training during the
Afghan conflict after the Trade Center bombing, is that true?
Did Ramzi Yousef stay in your house in Peshawar?
BIN LADIN: I do not know Ramzi Yousef. What the American
government and Pakistani intelligence has been reporting is
not true at all. But I say if the American government is
serious about avoiding the explosions inside the U.S., then
let it stop provoking the feelings of 1,250 million Muslims.
Those hundreds of thousands who have been killed or displaced
in Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon, do have brothers and relatives.
They would make of Ramzi Yousef a symbol and a teacher. The
U.S. will drive them to transfer the battle into the United
States. Everything is made possible to protect the blood of
the American citizen while the bloodshed of Muslims is
allowed in every place. With this kind of behavior, the U.S.
government is hurting itself, hurting Muslims and hurting the
American people.
Q) Mr. Bin Ladin, were you involved in financing the bombing
of the World Trade Center in New York City?
BIN LADIN: I have no connection or relation with this
explosion.
Q) Mr. Bin Ladin, in a recent interview with an Arabic
newspaper, you said that Arabs who fought in the Afghan war
killed U.S. troops in Mogadishu, Somalia. Can you tell us
about that?
BIN LADIN: The U.S. government went there with great pride
and stayed there for some time with a strong media presence
wanting to frighten people that it is the greatest power on
earth. It went there with pride and with over 28,000
soldiers, to a poor unarmed people in Somalia. The goal of
this was to scare the Muslim world and the whole world saying
that it is able to do whatever it desires. As soon as the
troops reached the Mogadishu beaches, they found no one but
children. The CNN and other media cameras started
photographing them (the soldiers) with their camouflage and
heavy arms, entering with a parade crawling (on the ground)
and showing themselves to the world as the "greatest power on
earth". Resistance started against the American invasion,
because Muslims do not believe the U.S. allegations that they
came to save the Somalis.A man with human feelings in his
heart does not distinguish between a child killed in
Palestine or in Lebanon, in Iraq or in Bosnia. So how can we
believe your claims that you came to save our children in
Somalia while you kill our children in all of those places?
With Allah's grace, Muslims over there, cooperated with some
Arab "Mujahideen" who were in Afghanistan. They participated
with their brothers in Somalia against the American
occupation troops and killed large numbers of them. The
American administration was aware of that. After a little
resistance, The American troops left after achieving nothing.
They left after claiming that they were the largest power on
earth. They left after some resistance from powerless, poor,
unarmed people whose only weapon is the belief in Allah The
Almighty, and who do not fear the fabricated American media
lies. We learned from those who fought there, that they were
surprised to see the low spiritual morale of the American
fighters in comparison with the experience they had with the
Russian fighters. The Americans ran away from those fighters
who fought and killed them, while the latter were still
there. If the U.S. still thinks and brags that it still has
this kind of power even after all these successive defeats in
Vietnam, Beirut, Aden, and Somalia, then let them go back to
those who are awaiting its return.
Q) Mr. Bin Lladin, your family is a rich powerful family in
Saudi Arabia. Have they, or the Saudi Arabian government
asked you to stop your activities?
BIN LADIN: They have done that a lot. They have pressured us
a lot, especially since a lot of our money is still in the
hands of the Saudi ruling family due to activities of the our
family and company (Saudi construction giant, the BinLadin
Group). They sent me my mother, my uncle, and my brothers in
almost nine visits to Khartoum (Sudan) asking me to stop and
return to Arabia to apologize to King Fahd. I apologized to
my family kindly because I know that they were driven by
force to come to talk to me. This regime wants to create a
problem between me and my family and in order to take some
measures against them. But, with Allah's grace, this regime
did not get its wish fulfilled. I refused to go back. They
(my family) conveyed the Saudi government's message that if I
did not go back, they'll freeze all my assets, deprive me of
my citizenship, my passport, and my Saudi I.D. and distort my
picture in the Saudi and foreign media. They think that a
Muslim may bargain on his religion. I said to them do
whatever you may wish. It is with Allah's bounty, we refused
to go back. We are living in dignity and honor for whom we
thank Allah. It is much better for us to live under a tree
here on these mountains than to live in palaces in the most
sacred land to Allah, while being subjected to disgrace not
worshipping Allah even in the most sacred land on earth,
where injustice is so widespread. There is no strength except
with Allah.
Q) Mr. Bin Ladin, have Saudi agents attempted to assassinate
you? Are you targeted by the U.S. government? Are you in fact
in fear of your life?
BIN LADIN: The U.S. pressures are no secret to you. The Saudi
pressures are also in response to American pressures. There
were several attempts to arrest me or to assassinate me. This
has been going on for more than seven years. With Allah's
grace, none of these attempts succeeded. This is a proof in
itself to Muslims and to the world that the U.S. is incapable
and weaker than the picture it wants to draw in people's
mind. A believer must rest assured that life is only in the
hands of Allah, and sustenance is also in the hands of Allah,
the Almighty. As for fearing for one's life, it is difficult
to explain to you how we think of ourselves, unless you have
full belief. We believe that no one could take out one breath
of our written life as ordained by Allah. We see that we see
that getting killed in the cause of Allah is a great honor
wished for by our Prophet (PBUH). He said in his Hadith: "I
swear to Allah, I wish to fight for Allah's cause and be
killed, I'll do it again and be killed, and I'll do it again
and be killed". Being killed for Allah's cause is a great
honor achieved by only those who are the elite of the nation.
We love this kind of death for Allah's cause as much as you
like to live. We have nothing to fear for. It is something we
wish for. Q) What are your future plans?
BIN LADIN: You'll see them and hear about them in the media,
God willing.
Q) Mr. Bin Ladin, if you had an opportunity to give a message
to President Clinton, what would that message be?
BIN LADIN: Mentioning the name of Clinton or that of the
American government provokes disgust and revulsion. This is
because the name of the American government and the name of
Clinton and Bush directly reflect in our minds the picture of
children with their heads cut off before even reaching one
year of age. It reflects the picture of children with their
hands cut off, the picture of the children who died in Iraq,
the picture of the hands of the Isrealis with weapons
destroying our children. The hearts of Muslims are filled
with hatred towards the United States of America and the
American president The President has a heart that knows no
words. A heart that kills hundreds of children definitely,
knows no words. Our people in the Arabian Peninsula will sent
him messages with no words because he does not know any
words. If there is a message that I may send through you,
then it is a message I address to the mothers of the American
troops who came here with their military uniform walking
proudly up and down our land while the scholars of our
country are thrown in prisons. I say that this represents an
a blatant provocation to 1,250 million Muslims. To these
mothers I say if they are concerned for their sons, then let
them object to the American government's policy and to the
American president. Do not let themselves be cheated by his
standing before the bodies of the killed soldiers describing
the freedom fighters in Saudi Arabia as terrorists. It is he
who is a terrorist who pushed their sons into this for the
sake of the Isreali interest. We believe that the American
army in Saudi Arabia came to separate between the Muslims and
the people for not ruling in accordance with Allah's wish.
They came to be in support of the Israeli forces in occupied
Palestine, the land of the "Israa" of our Prophet (PBUH).
